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Débat d’experts musulmans sur l’excision

March 1st, 2007 by ajmch

Il est intéressant de relever dans quelle mesure les textes sacrés soutiennent les partisans et les adversaires de l’excision. Ceux qui s’opposent à cette manifestation de la barbarie doivent contester la validité de certains textes, en interpréter d’autres à la limite du sophisme, chercher des références lointaines et se fonder sur des considérations non religieuses (tradition obscurantiste, danger d’infection, conséquences sociales, destruction de la confiance de l’enfant en ses parents). Tandis que les adeptes de la mutilation trouvent leurs arguments centraux dans les textes les plus acceptés et dans les processus d’évaluation légale les plus communs. Cliquer sur l’image pour voir l’émission.

Extraits des échanges:

Mahmoud Ashur: “Female circumcision is a traditional custom, and not a religious act. All the hadiths dealing with female circumcision are unreliable. Moreover, the hadith cited by those who support circumcision calls to refrain from it more than it calls to perform it.

[...]

“Female circumcision is not part of Islam. Rather, it is a traditional custom. Under no circumstances should we follow this custom, because it leaves a deep wound in the souls of these girls, which has a psychological, emotional, and social impact on their lives. Female circumcision does a lot of damage. This damage is harmful, and it shatters the girl’s soul. Therefore, it is absolutely forbidden to perform this custom. No person should do this, because it is harmful and causes damage.

[...]

“This is a despicable, ugly, and evil custom. It is performed by a woman who uses inappropriate and non-sterile instruments. She may be passing on to the girl a terrible disease, or causing her a wound that never heals, because the person who performs this custom lacks expertise and experience, and does not know how to sterilize the instruments, and therefore she inflicts terrible diseases upon the girls.”

[...]

Muhammad Al-Mussayar: “All the jurisprudents, since the advent of Islam and for 14 centuries or more, are in consensus that female circumcision is permitted by Islam. But they were divided with regard to its status in shari’a. Some said that female circumcision is required by shari’a, just like male circumcision. Some said this is the mainstream practice, while others said it is a noble act. But throughout the history of Islam, nobody has ever said that performing female circumcision is a crime. There has been a religious ruling on this for 14 centuries.”

[...]

Mahmoud Ashur: “In the days of Jahiliya [i.e. the pre-Islamic period] and in the early days of Islam, a man whose mother carried out this custom was scorned by people who called him ‘you son of a clitoris cutter.’ This proves that it was never part of the religion of Islam. As for male circumcision, it is the approved mainstream practice, as determined by Islam and as instructed by the Prophet Muhammad.”

[...]

“There is no doubt that we must reach agreement on this issue. There must be a decisive view and a resolute decision on this custom especially, because it is evil. When people perform it, they do so out of extreme ignorance, and it has a severe impact on marital life.”

[...]

Muhammad Al-Mussayar: “First of all, there are reliable hadiths in Al-Bukhari and Al-Muslim which support female circumcision. The Prophet Muhammad said: ‘If a circumcised woman and man have intercourse, they must undergo ablution.’ Unreliable hadiths do not cancel out the reliable ones. We have unreliable hadiths regarding prayer, fasting, charity, and pilgrimage. Should we abolish prayer and charity just because some hadiths are unreliable? According to some hadiths in Al-Bukhari and Al-Muslim, ‘If a circumcised woman and man have intercourse, they must undergo ablution.’ People would curse one another by saying: ‘You son of a clit woman’ – the son of a non-circumcised woman. The objections to circumcision are illogical and unnatural.

Interviewer: What is the justification for doing this?”

Muhammad Al-Mussayar: “First of all, allow me… Regarding the claim that the instruments are not sterile – this is the reality and is not part of religious law. If there are dentists who do not sterilize their instruments, should we abolish medical faculties and dental clinics, or should we demand that they rectify the situation? Flawed reality cannot serve as a religious argument. The claim that female circumcision leads to barrenness is not true. The Muslim woman bears more children than any other woman. It is the Western woman who is barren, even though she is not circumcised. Moreover, when talking about nervous breakdowns… This is considered a day of celebration for the family.”

Interviewer: “A day of celebration for the family?! Let me begin with the psychological effects. According to some studies, when there is a celebration, and sweets are given to the girl, and then an act is performed in which the girl’s flesh is cut off… this makes her lose trust in her family, first of all. This generates an inner problem. As for the medical, physical problem, there is a problem in childbirth. There are lacerations, microbes, deformities – this is what the doctors say.”

Muhammad Al-Mussayar: “Sterilization is necessary in such cases. Cutting off a part of the human body does not mean a violation of its sanctity. How many human body parts are cut off in plastic surgery, and so on, yet we do not consider this offensive to the woman?”

Interviewer: “What is the reason for circumcising girls?”

Muhammad Al-Mussayar: “First of all, the claim that this is a Pharaonic or Jahili practice…”

Interviewer: “Let’s assume that this is a religious requirement…”

Muhammad Al-Mussayar: “It isn’t…”

Interviewer: “Nevertheless, hypothetically speaking, what is the main reason for this?”

Muhammad Al-Mussayar: “Some sources said: ‘Reduce, but do not remove.’ In other words, it is neither about removing the organ, nor about leaving it. It is a trustworthy Muslim doctor who makes the decision. She decides whether the girl needs it or not. We do not obligate every girl to undergo circumcision. We say it should be left up to the doctor, and she can evaluate the case and determine whether the girl needs circumcision or not.”

Interviewer: “Why would she need it? Sheikh Mahmoud Ashur, would you like to comment? What are the reasons that one could say… Go ahead…”

Mahmoud Ashur: “If it is left up to the doctor, then it is a custom and not part of the religion.”

[...]

Muhammad Al-Mussayar: “Female circumcision is no less valid just because it was practiced in Pharaonic times and in the Jahiliya. Islam accepted some customs, which were harmonious with human nature, and rejected others, which contradicted human nature.”

[...]

Interviewer: “Some studies show that the upbringing at home is the main thing, and that 95% of all prostitutes [in Egypt] are circumcised.”

Muhammad Al-Mussayar: “And 100% of the prostitutes in the West are not circumcised, so what is the problem?”

Voir aussi:
Lettre ouverte à Unicef Suisse
L’Islam mutile les femmes
L’excision est-elle un problème islamique?
L’excision en Suisse et les médecins idiots utiles
Une députée suédoise demande des contrôles systématiques de l’excision

Posted in Vigilance | 2 Comments »



2 Responses

  1. Le devoir de précaution » Blog Archive » La Norvège s'attaque aux excisions -- en ignorant l'Islam Says:

    [...] aussi: Débat d’experts musulmans sur l’excision Lettre ouverte à Unicef Suisse L’Islam mutile les femmes L’excision est-elle un problème [...]

  2. DOUDOU Says:

    JE TROUVE INSULTANT LE FAIT DE DIRE QUE L’ISLAM MUTILE LES FEMMES

    AJM: Eh bien faites donc en sorte que l’Islam cesse de mutiler les femmes, au lieu de venir casser les oreilles de ceux qui luttent contre l’excision. Si vous êtes de bonne foi…

    JE SUIS UNE FEMME MUSULMANE ET JE SUIS FIERE DE L’ETRE

    AJM: Je vous ai écrit une lettre: http://www.ajm.ch/wordpress/?p=981

    NOTRE RELIGION EST UNE RELIGION DE DROIT DE BONTE D’AMOUR ENVERS TOUT LE MONDE

    AJM: C’est absolument faux. Votre religion est basée sur le pire message de haine que l’humanité ait connu: http://www.ajm.ch/liberty/plainte_18.3.06.pdf
    Et il n’y a pas un mot prônant la réconciliation avec les non-croyants dans le Coran.

    SI LA RELIGION MUSULMANE ETAIT RESPECTEE DANS TOUT LES PAYS DU MONDE ET SI ELLE ETAIT PRATIQUEE DANS LES REGLES DE LART LE MONDE SERAI PARFAIT

    AJM: Peut-être le croyez-vous, mais il n’y a vraiment aucune raison valable à cela. Pour l’instant, les règles de l’art de cette religion sont définies dans le Coran et dans l’exemple d’un prophète chef de guerre qui s’est permis tous les crimes pour imposer son culte exclusif. Vous ne pourrez pas crier assez fort pour couvrir cette vérité: http://www.gpii.precaution.ch/?p=34

    MALHEUREUSEMENT LES EXTREMISTES LES TRADITIONS SECULAIRES ET JEN PASSE

    AJM: Oui, vous passez Mahomet, par exemple, qui sert d’exemple aux terroristes et de justification aux exciseuses.

    FONT QUE NOTRE RELIGION A ETE MODIFIE PAR CES GENS LA MAIS AUSSI PAR LA VISION NEGATIF QU ILS SE FONT DE LISLAM LISLAM NAUTORISE PAS LEXCISION

    AJM: Ah oui? La vérité est que cela figure dans des collections de hadiths très respectées et appliquées par des organisations islamiques non contestées en tant que telles: http://www.ajm.ch/wordpress/?p=969 ainsi que dans des manuels de droit islamique qui ont fait autorité des siècles durant: http://www.ajm.ch/wordpress/?p=979 (avant que le colonialisme n’y mette un frein).

    SE SONT DES TRADITIONS BARBARES TERRORISTES DUN AUTRE TEMPS

    AJM: Là, nous sommes d’accord. Mais ce sont des traditions barbares dont votre religion chérie est en train de favoriser le retour dans le monde entier: http://precaution.ch/wp/?p=279

    JE CONNAIS BEAUCOUP DE GENS QUI SONT ENTRES DANS LISLAM ET QUI ONT LE MEME POINT DE VUE QUE MOI MERCI

    AJM: Qu’attendent donc tous ces gens pour réformer l’Islam? Que le reste du monde se soumette à ces turpitudes?

    Pensez-vous vraiment pouvoir exiger que nous acceptions le fatras infâme constitué des appels univoques à la haine et à la violence du Coran et de vos revendications utopiques sans la moindre remise en question de votre part?

    En vérité, vous ne faites qu’une forme de propagande sourde. Vous partez d’une idée reçue et vous la cimentez, obstinément. Vous êtes l’un des vecteurs de cette horreur que vous refusez d’examiner raisonnablement. Vous êtes une islamiste.

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